Smith and Wesson Bodyguard 38

The Smith and Wesson Bodyguard 38 is a new “hammerless” revolver like those found in the Centennial line.  Unlike those guns, the new Bodyguard 38 has a polymer frame and integral laser.  It is one of two new compact handguns called Bodyguard introduced by S&W at the 2010 SHOT Show.

Smith and Wesson Bodyguard 38

First, the basics, it is a five-shot, 38 Special revolver that is rated for +P ammunition.  The hammer is full concealed, and the gun is double action only.  The gun is black with a grip.  At first glance, it looks a lot like a model 442.  But, this revolver is actually very different.

The Bodyguard 38 is a polymer framed revolver, the first ever by Smith & Wesson.  This means that Smith had to go back to the drawing board to design this firearm.  The lower frame (roughly from the rear of the cylinder back), is polymer, while the upper frame (surrounding the cylinder and housing the barrel) is aluminum.  As you might expect, the revolver is very light, weighing only 14.3 ounces.

A significant change on the Bodyguard 38 is the relocation of the cylinder release.  Instead of being mounted on the side of the frame, the release has been moved to the top of the frame, where an exposed hammer would normally be.  Since the cylinder release is along the midline of the revolver, it is now ambidextrous.

Speaking of the cylinder, one of the problems sometimes cited by owners of Smith & Wesson J-frames, is the extractor rod is too short to reliably eject fired brass.  This is an annoyance at the range, but a possible deadly problem in a self defense shooting.  While not full length, the rod on the Bodyguard 38 is noticeably longer to provide a more sure ejection of spent cartridges.

S&W Bodyguard 38

Smith and Wesson lists the barrel length as 1.9″.  Traditionally, S&W has listed the barrel length of their “snubbies” at either 1 7/8″ (1.875″) or 2″.  I assumed that Smith was rounding up the 1.875″, but the company rep insisted the barrel length was exactly 1.9″.

Sights are fixed and black.  The rear notch seems wider than the notch on the 442/642, but that is my impression only.  I didn’t measure them, and the Smith rep was not sure.

Significantly, the Smith and Wesson Bodyguard 38 ships with an integrated laser from Insight Technology.  The red laser mounts high and back on the right side of the frame.  The laser is adjustable for drift and elevation.  Two laser modes are offered: steady and pulse.  To activate the laser, the shooter my turn the unit on by pressing a button on the unit.

What I am curious about is the collaboration with Insight on the development of this revolver.  Smith & Wesson has offered Crimson Trace Lasergrips on many of their models, and I would have assumed they would bring CT in on this type of project.  However, according to an Insight rep I spoke with, Insight worked hand-in-hand with Smith to develop this gun.

S&W Bodyguard 38 for sale

While I think lasers can be useful in certain circumstances, I do not know how useful this laser unit will be, as an extra step is required to activate it.  Most self-defense shootings happen very quickly, and I am not sure that someone would have the time to click it on in its current configuration.

I’m certainly not a Crimson trace fanboy, but the activation of the Lasergrip is very intuitive and easily managed under stress.  For that reason alone, I would have liked to seen a CT laser used, or a different activation method of the Insight unit.

Dry firing the trigger was a pleasant experience.  The Bodyguard 38 trigger was typical of S&W factory triggers, which is to say it was a smooth, and very manageable double action pull.  It was slightly smoother than that of my own 642, but not quite as smooth as the Ruger LCR revolvers I have shot.

Smith and Wesson Bodyguard 38 for sale

Looking at the revolver, I immediately noticed the rubber grips come up higher on the frame, covering the portion of the frame where the web of my shooting hand normally rests.  While this is undoubtedly good for shooting the Bodyguard 38, the grips are not available for other J-frames.  So, don’t get excited when you look at the picture and see the grips.


I look forward to shooting the new Smith and Wesson Bodyguard 38, and when I do, you can expect a full review here.  MSRP is $509 and there is a Massachusetts compliant version.

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About Richard Johnson

Richard Johnson is a gun writer, police trainer and really bad joke teller. Check out his other writing in Combat Handguns, Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement, on The Firearm Blog and at BlueSheepdog.

Comments

  1. Touting the “ambidextrous” cylinder release… what do they say about the grip / location of laser button for Left Handers?

    • EXCELLENT observation, Alan! I failed to ask that question at the Show. As a right-hander, I wasn’t terribly impressed by the placement of the button as compared to the Crimson Trace LaserGrips.

    • I am lefty, and I bought the BG 38 because of the thumb cylinder release. Also, the laser button is in a good spot for your right thumb if your using a tactical style grip. Or, if your hands are on the larger side, you should be able to reach the button with your left thumb also.

      • The laser button on the BG 38 is in a perfect position for a lefty – right by your thumb. However the laser is pretty much useless. 1) it is a “push” button, so you’re never quite sure it’s actually ON until you see it – should be a switch that you can turn on while drawing and KNOW it’s on, and 2) the laser is sorely underpowered – hard to see in a moderately lighted room.

        My suggestions to S&W (you listening?) – can you put bigger/more powerful batteries in the grip so that the laser can actually be seen?

        • I could see the laser across the majority of the Bass Pro Shop on the opposite wall. Very clear in a well lighted room. .

    • The laser can be moved to the other side of the weapon. At least that is what I was told and I think that is also stated in the manual.

  2. I just bought a 638-3 and plan on putting a Lasermax-J on it until I saw the news release on this one. They need to make an all alum. alloy one with a Crimson Trace grip-switch and no-snag laser frame. Any idea on the list price or price range for this model?

  3. ra_balke says:

    Smith and Wesson has gone from a maker of the world’s finest handguns,, to a maker of beans

  4. AmirMortal says:

    On the topic of ambidexterity, which side does the cylinder open to? I was sort of hoping that it would open to the right for us lefties, as currently the only left-handed DA revolver I know of is the South Paw, by Charter Arms. I would love to see S&W make a lefty line and I know I am not alone.

  5. Pro Wrench says:

    I just picked up my new Bodyguard .38 on 07/21 and I must say I’m very pleased with it so far. It feels so light, compared to my old Taurus Ultra-Lite .38 anyway and shoots very nicely. I dont know how much lighter or even if it’s an illusion but it certainly feels great in my hand. I had my concerns when ordering it because of the new style grip as I have an unusually large hand but they were unwarranted.
    My only 2 concerns are the already mentioned placement of the button to activate the laser, I didn’t buy it for the laser but it would be much better if it were activated like the crimson trace. The second is the cylinder release button, knob, lever whatever is made of plastic. Yes I’m sure it’s a very strong & durable type of plastic however it is the only part on the gun that does not look… top shelf. I would not mind the few extra grams of weight for a metal release.

    Overall I’m very impressed with my Bodyguard .38, especially being a completely new design. I’m disabled, a double amputee on the left side so I’m limited to revolvers and while I can shoot the big guns this is a perfect CCW tool for me and compliments my back-up Judge revolver nicely. I really want a M&P340 with the Crimson Trace grips but the price is out of reach for me. I paid $550 for the .38 which was a great deal I thought.

  6. Has anyone found a holster that works well with this gun? Its seems some of the one’s I have looked at dont fit or the laser gets in the way.

    • just got a e-mail from S&W.
      You can order them by calling the number below. They run $64.95 each.

      Item 199040000 RH BLK SPEED SCABBARD BODYGUARD 38

      Regards, Paul

      1-800-331-0852 Ext. 2905

      • leather or what ?just spent $500, would like tacticle/smooth option for wife…65 bucks ….really ????more options plz

    • Uncle Mike’s size 36 for inside the pants (open style, not sure about the one with the clasp). I also have the cc belt holster offered by S&W, it is made by De Santis.

    • Don Hume makes a holster to fit the BG 38 with laser, Its the JIT Belt slide, costs under $30, you can order from their web site, I have 3 of these for asst. handguns and love them for concealed carry

    • Blackhawk ITW holster, size 08 fits perfectly… laser and all.

    • myron babb says:

      I found a holster I love for the Bodyguard S&W 38 spl. It is a Soft Armor # 15 and has 4 bullet loops on the front of the holster with a snap to hold the gun in the holster. Fits perfect and is adjustable was about $17. I carry it on my motorcycle or anywhere I go. It does not affect the laser on the side. YMMV.

  7. I held this tonight. My first inpression was VERY, VERY! light. My second impression was it needs hogue grips. My third was for a “J” frame it’s small for a medium size hand. My pinky will not fit.

    As far as laser instructions tap once and it’s a solid laser, tap again and it blinks, tap again and you turn it off. As a righty you will use your right thumb to activate the laser. Just pretend your cocking the hammer back.

    Overall, this would make a great gift for a woman that needs that protection when your not around.

  8. Sold a Bodyguard 38 to a customer. Brought it back following week. Every second cylinder the gun will not advance the next round. Has anyone else had this trouble? Waiting to hear from S&W about repair.

    • It’s because when he pushes the cylinder closed he doesnt lock it in by turning the cylinder left

    • Yes. same situation. It works fine dry function but apparently recoil disarticulates the oddball ratchet mechanism. I found this failure to rotate on one sample but two others did not have the problem.

  9. Unless you are a gunsmith you can’t strip it to completely clean and service it. You can clean the barrel and cylinder but can’t remove the cylinder to clean the rod that it spins on. Mine is fouled on that rod and has to go to S&W for factory repair.

  10. i bought a s&w bodyguard j frame it will shoot once the next round
    won,t the chamber won,t open s&w sent it back same problem

  11. i bought a s&w the chamber on bodyguard 38 crimson sight after firing once the chamber won,t open

  12. The S&W Bodyguard is more reaction than innovation–if you want the real deal then get a Ruger LCR.

  13. i bought 38 s&w bodyguard with crimes sight the cylinder won,t open after the first shot has anyone had the same problem second time have sent it back

  14. I have Bodyguard and need an extended rubber grip. Any idea when the grip manufacturers might come out with alternatives for this hangun?

  15. I bought a Bodyguard 38 at a gun show a week ago, and just got to shoot it this weekend. The Insight laser wasn’t too far off at 20-25 feet, but the gun really wanted to jump out of my hand. The dealer told me that Hogue grips were available for this, but so far I haven’t been able to find any via internet searches. Anybody have any tips?

  16. I own one and hogue does not make a grip for them..And i cant even find a ankle holster for it yet.the laser is to bulky to fit a reg j-frame holster.

  17. I was able to get a Hogue Bantam grip, supposedly to fit S&W J-frames with rounded butt, and a whole list of models it was supposed to fit. I got the factory grip off just fine, without messing up the stock pin. However, I was not able to get the Bantam all the way up on the frame to the point where the stock pin would engage in the holes in the grip, plus it was rubbing at the top. I have emailed S&W for suggestions, and plan to do the same with Hogue. will keep this updated. Thanks

  18. Update on the Hogue grip for the BG38 – got an email from smith-wesson today, and they confirmed that the Bantam does not fit and as far as they know, there is not a replacement grip out there (as yet). Oh well, perhaps later….

  19. As an NRA firearms instructor my partners and I purchase some of the most popular firearms and evaluate them for our students. I have always owned and enjoyed shooting S&W revolvers until I shot this new Bodyguard. First of all, Ruger got it right with the LCR. I’ve fired well over two thousand plus-P cartridges through my LCR. Easy to shoot and NO problems. Felt recoil has definitely been reduced. Now for the New Bodyguard .38 special. It also is lightweight and has very manageable recoil even while firing plus-P loads. I do find the LCR is even more manageable. When the New Bodyguard is fired, the double-action trigger must be completely released after it’s fired. No short stroke of the trigger on the Bodyguard revolver because it will not reset and fire the next cartridge. While the trigger must also be reset LCR trigger is more forgiving. I also find that as the New Bodyguard heats up while firing it seems to somewhat bind. It will continue to fire but not as smooth. I’m sorry to say that the New Bodyguard revolver is not what I’m used to from S&W revolvers. Normally, do to my dissatisfaction I would trade this firearm in for another, however I’ll keep it to share with our students so that they may make their own determination. Maybe it’s my age talking, but I would much rather shoot my older S&W J,K,L & N frame revolvers then the new ones. I like S&W’s new rail system for revolvers which allows the mounting of a tactical light, but I have little use for the lasers on these five shot guns (hideout/back up firearms) and I don’t like the built in safeties on these revolvers. Lastly, I like the New Bodyguard .380 ACP pistol and I think the S&W M&P Pro 9mm pistol is great!

    • Al,

      Thanks for posting your experiences with the Bodyguard. I haven’t had a chance to shoot one yet, but I have shot the LCR’s quite a bit now. I really like them a lot. My constant companion (S&W 642) might have been replaced with an LCR if I wasn’t so attached to it. Carrying it for some 10+ years on and off duty…well, I guess I’ve grown a bit fond of it.

      Thanks again,

      Richard

  20. Richard,

    I agree with you on the S&W Model 642. I also carried one as a backup for years. I have since replaced it with the Ruger LCR. While the Model 642 is an excellent carry gun it was not so pleasent to shoot with hot factory loads. I strongly believe we must practice with what we carry. I have fired well over two thousand rounds of plus-P ammo through the LCR in recent month. While it may not be as “fun” to shoot as my 1911 or a new Sig Elite Model 220 or 226 it certainly is very shootable. Unlike my previous practices with S&W J frames or the Colt Detective Specials loaded hot, at the end of the day I don’t find myself complaining or swearing after shooting a couple hundred rounds through my LCR. I wish I could say the same about the Bodyguard .38 special. It has less felt recoil the J frames but as stated previously I don’t like it’s trigger while actually firing it and I did notice some binding when hot. While dry firing the Bodyguard at the store I thought it felt rather good but I was disappointed at the range. I do like the new S&W Bodyguard .380 ACP pistol but I’ll leave that for another post. y

  21. Stu Nelson says:

    I just traded for the new Bodyguard, anyone noticed that the firing pin doesn’t show when dry fired.

  22. Don Johnson says:

    Wow….I looked at a bodyguard revolver today and will have to admit after reading your reviews that I’ll pass on a purchase and keep carrying my model 60 357 mag…..I guess I’m a rare bird anyway because I like conceal carrying a heavier more powerful gun anyway.
    Thanks for the reviews I’m disappointed in SW.

  23. i just bought the new bodyguard 38. took it out for a test run. i have to say mine is a great shooter.the laser is not on target and will need adjustment.but using the the fixed sights its on the money.i also like the trigger pull very clean no creep.i put 150 rounds down range with no problems.hope it stays that way.if the ruger shoots better than my bg38 i got to give one a try. overall im very happy with mine.

  24. Stu Nelson says:

    I have to agree with Mark. I took mine to the range and even though the fire pin doesn’t show when dry firing, it will shoot just fine.I found the gun very acurate and the recoil is not bad. I would like to replace the grips though. For the money and for what I need it for, it will do just fine.

  25. Tom Dougherty says:

    Just got my BG38 last week and fired a grand total of 50 rounds thru it … a lot more recoil than I was expecting but I have only been using a Model 10 recently which is a very stable weapon for me. Tried the laser sights for a few rounds and found I could just as accurately fire using the sights. Then again if in a hot situation painting someone with a laser might be a lot easier than using normal sighting. I deffintely would like a better grip on the 38.

  26. As far as the jamming problem goes. Stick to winchester or remington ammo. I experienced the problem with Sellier and Bellot full metal jackets. They use cheap metal and the primers dimple outward after fired. This caused the primers to get stuck in the firing pin hole. I also shot home defense hollow points and regular hollow points and it shot fine with those. Stay away from blazer rounds I heard those are cheaply made too. Keep an eye on the thickness of the lip on the end of the round too. Some rounds will be thicker than others which could also cause problems. Dont buy cheap rounds for an expensive firearm so to say.

  27. If anyone hears anything about aftermarket grips for the BG38 let me know. I have a question for all of you now. If someone were to offer you a 15 year old Taurus 44 mag 4″ barrel ported with hair trigger for the BG38 would you make the trade.

  28. I purchased one last month. I love it. Shoots great, very light to carry. Perfect CCW gun. 38+P is more than enough for personal carry. Easy recoil, accurate for a snub nose….I love it.

  29. Kevin,

    I personally would not feel great about a hair trigger for a CCW. To me that is just dangerous and the “safety” of a revolver in most cases is the trigger. Guess in the long run it depends what you want to use the gun for. The 4″ barrel will be more accurate (easier to accurately shoot) than the 1.9 on the BG38. It will also make it more of a pain to carry though. I would keep the BG38 if your intention is carry.

  30. I bought a S&W Bodyguard 38 and took it to the range. After firing 5 rounds the laser died. Not a fun gun to shoot but I bought it for its light weight. Returned it.

    • Jay,

      Did you return it S&W, or just back to the store? I know a lot of stores won’t take a gun back that has been fired, requiring you to send it to the manufacturer for service. I would like to hear how Smith & Wesson’s customer service was. It is really unusual for a laser to stop working like that. Did they tell you what was wrong with it?

      -Richard

  31. I was intending to buy a Ruger LCR but after comparing the way the grips felt (like holding a 2×4) to the S&W Bodyguard 38, I went with the S&W. I have only shot 50 rounds through it so far but no evidence of binding. The iror sites are fine for this gun’s intended purpose, I got decent groups at 7 & 10 yards. Felt recoil is a nonevent, and I love the gun’s light weight and the top cylinder release. My only disappointment is the laser would not hold a zero for more than one round. I tried adjusting and adjusting and after each round it would be way off (e.g 6″ off at 10 yards). I’m going use the S&W supplied tool to check whether its loose. If I can’t get it straight will call S&W for an exchange

  32. I just bought this bodyguard 38 and although I did not use the laser sites today(was shooting outside)< I really like this gun. It actually shot a pretty decent 3 1/2 inch group at 25 yards. It is really light weight which is perfect for a carry gun and that is what I bought it for. I shot a Taurus Judge today and this 38 shot way better than that judge did with a shorter barrel. I did not release the trigger two times which resulted in the cylinder not advancing, not a big deal in my book. I would not hesitate to recomend this gun to anyone looking for a concealed carry gun, in fact my sister has it on her want list.

  33. I purchased nine of these for our security division. I personally have fired 850 rounds through them (average 90 rounds +/- per weapon). I’ve had zero malfunctions so far. I really like them. My only complaint is locating retention holsters i.e. belt type. Ankle holsters-no problems, pocket holsters-no problem but IWB and on the belt type, per our policy must have a factory incorporated retaining device. Any ideas anyone?

  34. My hubby just bought me the SW 38 bodyguard for Christmas. I took it out this week to shoot it. I really like it. It was VERY manageable for me and I like that fact that there isn’t the likelihood of an accidental shooting with double action (?). My hubby travels a lot and I have my .357 at home but also want to carry a firearm with me when I am out. All in all, I think this is great gun for us ladies. I put abut 100 rounds through it and it became more comfortable with every round.

    • Hi Chris,

      Thanks for the range report! Your feedback on the Bodyguard is very valuable for a lot of people thinking about buying the gun.

      Also, right now, our site sponsor has the Smith and Wesson Bodyguard .38 on sale for only $414.99 through the end of the month. So those of you looking at this gun may want to give them a look.

      Thanks again for the report,

      Richard

  35. That is a great looking holster. I wonder if there is a LH holster out there that will work with the laser – anybody know of one?

  36. I am also a southpaw. I just ordered my Bodyguard 38. I would like to find a holster(s) for us “right-minded” people.

  37. My fobus paddle holster sized for the ruger sP101 is a perfect or near perfect fit for the bodyguard. Somewhat disturbing is the tendency of the guns to shoot several inches left of point of aim- two examples shot 5 inches left at 25 yards with one example shooting about seven inches high as well. Some of them also exhibit failure to advance the cylinder after firing. The revolver seems to handle sharp recoil better than the Ruger LCR with the laser grip but in all other respects, it is inferior to the ruger.

  38. I LOVE the gun, but hate the grips. I made my own out of exotic wood. Very difficult to do, but it made a big difference.

    • Mike,

      Very cool! I’d love to see the grips! Can you send them to me in an e-mail? admin at gunsholstersandgear.com With your permission, we can post the photos up here so everyone can see.

      Richard

  39. I’m a first timer to a hand gun and stared with a 38. S/w b.g and like it.

  40. rick schaffer says:

    I made the mistake of buying one right after they came out. the gun jammed on me both times i used it. I then sent it back w/ a nasty note. they finally fixed it. their rep suffered with this one

  41. Just bought the bodyguard 38. love the gun, but after shooting 50 rounds it needs houge grips for sure

  42. I purchased the bodyguard 38 for my wife 3 days and 75 rounds later it had to be sent back to smith n wesson with a cylinder that will not close im not very impressed

  43. Lawrence says:

    Bought a .38 Bodyguard revolver as a lightweight alternative to my S&W 640. Three of us (including two experienced rangemasters) put about 50 rounds through it without appreciably damaging the center of the target. We’re chalking that up to the fact we all have large hands and weren’t able to get a tight grip. That doesn’t worry me as I consider these to be “belly guns,” but I’m still carrying my CT-equipped 640. The Bodyguard fits nicely in my Safariland holster with the snap that covers the trigger guard.

  44. Blackhawk 00 nylon hip holster 2in barrel works great

    • Even with the laser attached to the Bodyguard .38 you still feel the Blackhawk 00 nylon hip holsternwith the 2 inch barrel works great for this gun? No problems snapping the top snapmeven with the laser attached to the .38 Bodyguard?

  45. love that sw 38 bg

  46. Just bought my BG38 and love it. No problems with laser or recoil. Could not find a shoulder holster but had one made by J.R. Roscoe at (WWW.shoulderholster.us) Great CCW!

  47. I have heard a lot of good n bad things about the S&W 38 bodyguard. I don’t know if I should get one or not. Compare to Ruger LCR, which one is far more better in terms of recoil, cylinder not advanced to next round, and etc. I did previuosly owned a Ruger SP101 (357 magnum / 38 special) but a bit heavy at 25 ounces. It is small with no problem as mentioned to bodyguard S&W. I currently owned several guns such as Kimber PRO AEGIS 9mm, Kahr CM9 (9mm), and Sig Sauer P238 (380). They are great guns. The Kahr CM9 n Sig P238 are top priority for concealed and smaller than the BODYGUARD. No jammed problems with them n flawless. I might do more research on S&W bodyguard n Ruger LCR. I love to have one.

  48. Bought the Smith & Wesson Bodyguard about 4 months ago, and have put about 250 rounds thru it of which about 150 were +P. gun has functioned perfectly. The trigger took a little getting used to, but the gun is very accurate for a snubby. The laser was off to the left about 6 inches at 15 yards, but was easy to adjust. Grips are fine the way they are “large hands”, but I have two other Smith snubbys and shoot them alot..Noticed the cyl. rotates in opposite direction, thought that a bit strange..Galco #C109 WC leather paddle holster fits the gun perfectly, conceals easy…Great weapon, buy good ammo and it will do the job..

  49. really want too find an ankle holster for this otherwise i wont be buying this gun…any suggestions?

  50. Just bought a Bodyguard 38 for my wife. I think this gun was built for women. Small grip, light trigger, easy cylinder release and no hammer. She loves it. as she shot it I watched the cylinder rotate. If she did not press the trigger crisply, the cylinder would not rotate to full lock position. She fixed this by pulling the trigger crisply. The only hoster that fits well is the Fobus SP 101. It needs a small grind on the plastic where the laser fits in. Im waiting for blackhawk to make one just for this gun in their rotopaddle serpa series. She loves her gun and it is her primary concealed carry. Uses a glock 17 as a car gun.

  51. Bill Towers says:

    “Since the cylinder release is along the midline of the revolver, it is now ambidextrous.”
    That sounds good but, is it really? I have a 38 bodyguard, nice gun, dead on at 10yds. Like most revolvers, the cylinder fall out to the left, so you still need to change hands to eject and reload. For lefties, the cylinder has nowhere to go, your hand is in the way. Clever advertising but real world….Still I really like this revolver, it is my primary carry. The Desantis soft tuck is a perfect holster for this revolver. I recommend Golden Saber +P, a lot of bang for your buck, if you will pardon the pun.

    “Self defence is a right, not a privilege.”

  52. I bought one about a year ago, the laser still working. I do not like the grips that came with the gun, I would like a little longer in the bottom so all fingers would grip the gun, where right now its hard to hold with four fingers especially shooting the 38 +P, has tendency to twist in my hand. Any know of different grips that would work on this S&W Bodyguard.

  53. I just received a S&W BG38 as a gift, I haven’t fired it yet, I do like the weight and size of the revolver and the grip feels better then my Ruger LCP, I do have small hands. I’m an over-weight USMC (I do like my Colt 1911) old goat with disabilities. I’m concerned about the cylinder problems that has been reported here on this blog, has these issues been resolved in the last four years since the revolver was released. I’m also looking for holster patterns where I can make my own holster. I bought the Galco Tuck-n-Go Inside the Pant Holster, and found it to be vary uncomfortable while setting with my body type. I’m new at holster making with my leather working and I like a challenge.

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